During each presidential debate, watch political analysts Peter Robinson and James Norton exchange wit and wisdom in a real-time format.

Join us each debate night at 9pm (ET).

Transcript of the Diablog from the second presidential debate held Friday, Oct. 8, at Washington University, St. Louis, MO:

Josh Burek (Fri. 10/8, 8:59:41 pm ET)

Good evening and welcome to Diablog: real-time repartee. My name is Josh Burek and I'll be serving as tonight's moderator. We're delighted to welcome back two distinguished guests: from the left, James Norton, and from the right, Peter Robinson. James and Peter, thanks for joining us.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:00:08 pm ET)

Josh, great to be back in the mix. Peter, good to virtually share the floor with you once more.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:00:09 pm ET)

A pleasure. And welcome back, James.

Josh Burek (Fri. 10/8, 9:00:50 pm ET)

Senator Kerry and President Bush are moments away from their second presidential debate. The Red Sox have just swept the Angels, so Kerry has to be feeling upbeat. But before we discuss the specifics of tonight's contest, I want to ask a kind of devil's advocate question that I hear posed from time to time:

Josh Burek (Fri. 10/8, 9:01:08 pm ET)

In 2000, Al Gore had virtually everything going for him. He was a visible No. 2 in an administration that had presided over the best economy in memory. He was smart, articulate, and had virtually no taint of scandal after 8 years in a White House marred by countless allegations. Yet he lost the electoral vote to George W. Bush. Since then, under Bush's watch, the economy has shed jobs, US soldiers are struggling to win the peace in Iraq, and the country is the most divided its been since Vietnam. Yet Republicans picked up seats in the 2002 midterms, and the best Kerry can do is tie Bush in the polls. What gives?

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:02:36 pm ET)

I think at least part of the story has to be the way this administration has ruthlessly worked on message control and media domination. They've done a great job at burying ugly news, and playing up an image as a strong and united government. It's all starting to come apart – the question is, will it come apart fast enough to turn the tide for Kerry in November?

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:02:41 pm ET)

Given the time, I'm sure some bright doctoral student could write a dissertation in answer to that one, Josh. But in brief: What gives is 9/11. Poll after poll indicates that the war on terror is the issue of the day – and that voters consider Republicans, on balance, best-suited to conduct that war.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:03:41 pm ET)

James, James. Even if the administration had wanted to bury your version of reality, how could it? With your man, Al Franken, on the air, with Michael Moore ruling the best-seller lists ... and with Dan Rather on the air every evening?

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:03:46 pm ET)

The interesting thing about the debates is that they're high-profile, and not controlled by either camp. The "real" record has a chance to shine after lurking under the mounds of political dung thrown by both sides.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:04:22 pm ET)

I agree: The debates are sui generis. No handlers, no spinners, no ads. Just two men in the ring.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:04:53 pm ET)

For what it's worth, I'm watching on C-SPAN. You, James?

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:05:08 pm ET)

CNN, actually.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:05:23 pm ET)

All right, let me go ahead and say it: In that first minute or so, Kerry looked great. Relaxed, gracious, utterly at ease.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:06:07 pm ET)

He certainly put a lot on the table in a hurry. And elegantly.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:06:41 pm ET)

Kerry is blowing those first few moments, I think. The questioner asked why people think he's squishy. Kerry is responding with one issue after another, which ain't the nice, tight powerful answer she gave him the opportunity to deliver.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:07:15 pm ET)

I think it's more important off the bat to put Bush off-balance and set the stage for the evening's themes – I can't fault Kerry for that.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:07:27 pm ET)

Ah, Bush is telling that Howard Dean canard.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:08:08 pm ET)

Kerry supported the resolution for force – note that it wasn't a vote for war. He supported tough weapons inspections – not a preemptive fight with a poorly planned occupation.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:08:32 pm ET)

It's nuanced, but I think at the end of the debates, most Americans will have their heads around the consistency of Kerry's stance vis-a-vis the war.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:08:49 pm ET)

Amazing. We're not five minutes into this, but it already seems clear that we're in for a second debate a lot like the first: Kerry eloquent, but talking, if anything, a little too much, a little too glibly. Bush, tightly wound, hammering again and again on the same few themes.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:09:34 pm ET)

Bush seems defensive on the WMD question – he seems angry at the questioner, not Saddam / Al Qaeda.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:09:44 pm ET)

Bush *looks* better in this format, out from behind the lectern.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:10:19 pm ET)

It'll be interesting to watch their body language once the clock hits 75 minutes.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:10:29 pm ET)

Or my body language, for that matter.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:10:36 pm ET)

C-SPAN is using a split screen from time to time. At the moment, Kerry looks a little bored, maybe irritated. Is CNN using a split screen, James? Are there any reaction shots?

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:11:06 pm ET)

Kerry is arching his eyebrows in a whimsical manner.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:11:32 pm ET)

Bush is a little too loud and hot here – not on substance, just stylistically. TV is a cool medium, as the Gipper showed us again and again.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:12:11 pm ET)

Kerry is incredibly tough here – very persuasive, I think – not angry, but resolute.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:12:52 pm ET)

Interesting. Both campaigns must have decided that the veep debates proved successful – and that their presidential candidate ought to come out swinging. Now Kerry seems too hot. And you're right: These guys can't keep this up for all 90 minutes.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:13:26 pm ET)

And Bush is returning to the "global test" canard. In context, Kerry's remark was anything but a call for a UN veto on US self-defense.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:14:54 pm ET)

Now the audience is calling for Kerry to differentiate his Iraq plan from Bush's. I think it's going to be hard for Kerry to do it – the plans are both a lot of "muddle through" at this point, and necessarily so.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:15:28 pm ET)

Oh, this is nonsense from Kerry: His plan for Iraq (to the extent that he actually has laid one out) differs from that of Bush only in its absurd proposal for an international summit. You're right: The choice is between two attempts to muddle through.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:15:42 pm ET)

Kerry's only real hope – and he's bringing it to us, right now – is to suggest his election will regenerate international trust in the US.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:16:33 pm ET)

Yes, I agree there, James. Why doesn't Kerry – why didn't Edwards – simply say that there are times in world affairs, as there are times in life, when what's needed is a fresh start? That would be honest and, I think, compelling.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:17:23 pm ET)

Bush's paradigm: Iraq is going from tyranny to elections. If Kerry tries to call a summit, no one will take him seriously because he thought the war was a mistake.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:17:49 pm ET)

Bush missed an opportunity there. He should have spent a little time developing the idea that Kerry's plan is essentially the same as his.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:18:04 pm ET)

The real-world evidence seems to suggest: Iraq has gone from tyranny to chaos. And if Kerry calls a summit and says the war was the wrong choice, most of the world would be relieved the US has a commander in chief who comprehends reality.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:19:05 pm ET)

Another surprise, at least to me: Why didn't Bush start with the elections this weekend in Afghanistan? That will prove an immense event – a world-historical event – and it will have taken place only because Dubya applied American power.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:19:17 pm ET)

I'm not 100 percent sure that Bush's "yell at the audience" strategy is going to pay off at the polls.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:19:37 pm ET)

I think the reason Bush didn't start with it is that the odds are high those elections will be disrupted by violence.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:19:54 pm ET)

Possibly quite a lot of violence. They already stopped one giant truck-bomb near Kandahar.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:20:03 pm ET)

Good questions so far. These folks have asked them well – and Charlie Gibson seems to have chosen them well.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:20:27 pm ET)

One Taliban jihadi, and, boom!, a clever remark at the debate gets hung around his neck quicker than you can say "Halliburton."

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:21:02 pm ET)

Bush almost said the Hague is where US troops could be "brought to justice."

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:21:07 pm ET)

Of course they'll be disrupted by violence. But they'll take place – that's the point. Just as Cheney compared Afghanistan (and, implicitly, Iraq) to El Salvador, in which elections were disrupted but nevertheless transformed the nation, likewise, if I'd had my druthers, Bush.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:21:17 pm ET)

And then he pulled this amazing, stuttering verbal 180.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:21:53 pm ET)

El Salvador seems like a pretty bad example for the Republicans to be citing as a triumph of goodness and democracy, though.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:22:24 pm ET)

You're probably better on this issue than I am, but weren't there informal groups of people known as "death squads" working for the US-sponsored El Salvadoran government?

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:22:31 pm ET)

Bush's manner, his arguments, even the pitch and tone of his voice – all this will go down well in the Red America, meaning Texas, the South, the Rockies, and the Plains. But I'm just not sure how it will sit with undecided voters in blue America.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:23:02 pm ET)

I think if Bush's manner is read as righteous and firm, you're right.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:23:20 pm ET)

But he seems to be quavering and shouting more than anyone, anywhere would like.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:23:35 pm ET)

Oh, now, that happens to be a lie: As John Kerry knows very, very well, Gen. Shinseki's retirement was announced before the Gen. began to argue for larger numbers of troops in Iraq. I'm shocked, honestly. To repeat: There can be no doubt that Kerry knows he just uttered an untruth.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:23:54 pm ET)

Bush: "Of course I listen to my generals." General Shinseki: "Except for me, who suggested many hundreds..." Ah, Kerry beat me to it.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:24:15 pm ET)

You, me, and Kerry: Together, for one beautiful moment.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:25:07 pm ET)

Iran and nukes: Another very good question.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:25:33 pm ET)

I think Kerry's rapport with the crowd is really good – he's talking clearly and intelligibly, but not talking down.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:25:52 pm ET)

This is a tough question, but he's spelling it out quite clearly – what Iran's up to, and what's at stake.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:26:48 pm ET)

Yup: Kerry seems intelligent and well-spoken. The question is whether voters can be moved on style alone.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:27:15 pm ET)

"Almost made me want to scowl." Very nice. A touch of self-effacing humor.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:27:34 pm ET)

When Bush peevishly said "I fully understand the threat!" it sounded a lot like a replay of the "I know Osama bin Laden didn't do 9/11" sound bite from the last debate.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:28:02 pm ET)

"Naive and dangerous." That seems to be tonight's Bush mantra. Could prove effective.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:30:53 pm ET)

Correction: Bush said "Saddam Hussein didn't do 9/11"

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:31:16 pm ET)

My fault. I blame Dick Cheney's relentless campaign of mind control.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:31:24 pm ET)

Bush's answer on the draft seemed comprehensive and forceful. Now Kerry is listing the names of a lot of generals. I just doubt that endorsements move voters.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:32:11 pm ET)

Wow. Bush just trampled the moderator.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:32:23 pm ET)

That looks terrible.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:32:38 pm ET)

And I think it was a) justified, and b) very effective.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:33:04 pm ET)

Doesn't look terrible to me. A rare moment in politics, because completely authentic.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:33:24 pm ET)

It was effective at showing Bush feels as though he's not winning within the rules as they're established. And Kerry just threw the "8 countries are leaving the coalition" fact back into that onslaught.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:34:05 pm ET)

I see, tonight, a president who is under assault, who is touchy, who is angry, who is bellicose, facing an articulate, resolute, clear-headed opponent.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:34:21 pm ET)

The question of questions: If we're safe, why? If we're not, what will you do about it?

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:34:47 pm ET)

If the secret ingredient in trying, unstable times is calm and confidence, I think Bush is ceding it in these debates to Kerry.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:34:56 pm ET)

What I see is a man of gravity and action up against someone who is merely a very good talker.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:35:01 pm ET)

That was a very good question.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:36:12 pm ET)

A "man of gravity"?

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:36:38 pm ET)

He's the opposite of a man of gravity. He's floating off the ground like Yosemite Sam, propelled by his own lack of control and pent-up frustration.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:37:54 pm ET)

Gee, Bush is on a roll here. For once, he has his facts, his arguments, and his words all marching along in unison. Bush will stay on the offensive whereas Kerry has already shown he'd cut this and that aspect of the budget for homeland security. Can't tell yet whether this is simply one answer for which Bush was ready or whether he's finding his feet here.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:38:40 pm ET)

Did I miss the part of the debate where Kerry was talking about cutting the budget for homeland security?

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:39:52 pm ET)

It's so terrific to see someone call Bush on the reimportation of drugs question – it's one of the most glaring examples of how when the public good comes up against the good of lobbyists, this government always zigs when it should zag.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:40:56 pm ET)

James, James, James. I refer you to the website of Andrew Sullivan, who has argued at length, and entirely persuasively, on the need for patents and protections for drugs to bring in dough to fund research. Not, I grant you, that Dubya is making that argument.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:41:43 pm ET)

Let me correct that posting a bit "...website of noted conservative pundit Andrew Sullivan".

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:42:21 pm ET)

Regardless of the substance, Kerry is winning the question on the importation of prescription drugs. Bush's campaign must have decided simply to take a pass on that one.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:42:22 pm ET)

I'm sure the Wall Street Journal's editorial page made a cogent argument for blocking the reimportation of Canadian drugs, too. But that's not where the mainstream consensus has come down.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:43:34 pm ET)

To step back from the horse race for a second: Kerry is winning this one because he's right on the facts. All you have to do is look at the three drug industry lobbyists who joined Bush's Health and Human Services agency to know what side his bread is buttered on.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:43:36 pm ET)

Andrew Sullivan, the gay rights proponent? The (increasingly) harsh critic of President Bush? A conservative? James, one of these days you'll have to let me introduce you to a few conservatives. You've evidently never actually met any of us.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:43:59 pm ET)

(The rich, unethical, corporate, spooky side)

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:45:00 pm ET)

Does disagreeing with the administration on one or two issues disqualify you as a conservative? Sullivan isn't a lockstep GOP zombie, true. But he's not without his own long ideological track record, which trends rightward.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:45:23 pm ET)

Oh, James, tush. If you'd turned Bill Clinton's dept. of HHS upside down and shaken it, former and future lobbyists would have kept falling out for weeks.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:45:53 pm ET)

Let me clarify my post. The three lobbyists who joined HHS did so immediately after getting this Medicare bill passed.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:46:54 pm ET)

And Thomas Scully, who stopped a government actuary from disclosing the actual cost of Bush's Medicare ($100+ billion more than advertised) got an "ethics waiver" from Tommy Thompson to work for a drug company after the bill passed.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:48:42 pm ET)

I should probably note: I think Bush is doing much better at this point. He's still angry, but he seems more focused.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:48:53 pm ET)

I just can't help it: At this point I miss Reagan so much I just have to say so. By now, the Gipper would have spent whole minutes talking about the importance of economic freedom – and of the critical role free markets, technological dynamism, and the sheer ingenuity of the American people will play in prosecuting the war on terror. Bush is capable of defending his tax cuts, but the deep commitment to economic liberty either ain't there are ain't being expressed.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:49:26 pm ET)

Strangely enough, he seems more comfortable on domestic issues, which is the opposite of what I would have guessed.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:49:58 pm ET)

Out-of-control spending: Another very, very good question (and another one the Gipper, whom I promise not to mention again, would have knocked over the fence).

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:50:18 pm ET)

I don't think this administration has demonstrated a clear dedication to any principle other than "winning." It's been extremely inconsistent on everything except cutting taxes and going to war in Iraq.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:50:48 pm ET)

You're right about that: Bush has settled now. During the first half hour, he was almost like a racehorse that needed to burn through the first surge of adrenaline before it could settle into its stride.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:51:03 pm ET)

Also: Bush's tax cuts have NOT helped the working poor who don't pay income taxes, but pay payroll taxes.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:51:13 pm ET)

Well, cutting taxes and winning the war on terror ain't peanuts, James.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:51:43 pm ET)

Didn't I type "going to war in Iraq"?

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:52:12 pm ET)

Not "winning the war on terror"? Because they're about as similar as a Jacques Chirac and a French poodle.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:52:43 pm ET)

Oh, for heaven's sake, my good friend, James: Why do they pay payroll taxes? Because of the program of redistribution that is beloved above all others to liberals such as yourselves: Social Security. I couldn't agree more that payroll taxes represent a sin and a scandal and an outrage. But you can't touch them without touching Social Security, and that your side will never permit.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:52:52 pm ET)

Going to war in Iraq has giving Al Qaeda the world's best recruiting poster, while diverting resources away from pursuing Al Qaeda and building international resolve against anti-US terrorism.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:53:36 pm ET)

Ironically, though, Social Security has been plenty touched by this administration – down seven years of solvency, two of them due to actions Bush pushed for.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:53:57 pm ET)

There you go again, James. Anybody who has paid any attention to Chirac these last three years would be hard-pressed to distinguish between his empty preening and that of a particularly self-important canine.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:54:21 pm ET)

Kerry just hammered Bush on the tax cut for the rich, I think. Incredibly clear and succinct.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:54:52 pm ET)

Social Security is a different debate – one for which, I see, we both crave. May Dubya be reelected, and may he propose an overhaul of Social Security that will cause the CSM to invite us back.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:54:52 pm ET)

Maybe I should have said Charles De Gaulle...

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:55:33 pm ET)

That pledge question was the first real stinker of a question all night. Why would Charlie Gibson have chosen such a softball?

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 9:57:21 pm ET)

Oh, I very much doubt that. Mrs. Heinz would pay higher taxes too, surely.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:58:39 pm ET)

I think Mrs. Heinz can probably take a little bit of higher taxes at this point...

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 9:59:48 pm ET)

Bush is dragging out the "raising taxes 98" times ... he cut them 600 times, as well. It's schoolyard-level squabbling.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 10:00:15 pm ET)

"He's just not credible." On style, Dubya is, once again, trailing Kerry, but he is, once again, hammering out his points. He's doing a good enough job, in other words, to permit people to see just where he stands, and that ought to do the trick.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:00:44 pm ET)

Bush is citing the Clear-Skies initiative while talking about his environmental record. It's mind-blowing. Chutzpah, and pounds of it.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:01:17 pm ET)

(Quick definition of chutzpah: A boy kills his parents. He is taken to court. He appeals to the mercy of the court because he is an orphan.)

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:02:00 pm ET)

"I guess you could say I'm a good steward of the land." That will come back to haunt him.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:02:56 pm ET)

The Sierra Club says Bush's record is the worst environmental record in history.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 10:03:15 pm ET)

Welfare reform? What in the Sam Hill has that got to do with the environment? Bush must have gotten to Kerry if Kerry feels he has to defend himself on these points.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:03:38 pm ET)

They've let lobbyists write tolerance for mercury pollution into the law ... and ... well, Kerry is hitting these points pretty hard.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:04:26 pm ET)

I do admit I wish Kerry had a bigger-caliber silver bullet on the environmental question.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:04:53 pm ET)

But it doesn't seem that the environment is a key issue for elections at this point – neither side has put much effort into it.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 10:04:54 pm ET)

I disagree with Kerry (and you) on the substance, but on the politics I'd say this back-and-forth on the environment is a wash. Bush did better, to be honest, than I'd expected.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:05:39 pm ET)

As a guest on The Al Franken Show, we had a former EPA director under Nixon and Ford. Lifelong Republican. His grandfather was a Republican. He switched to the Democratic party because of the damage Bush has done to the environment.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:06:22 pm ET)

His name is Russell Train. His story is pretty hard to refute, once you've heard it.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 10:06:42 pm ET)

Oh, come on, James. You and Al found some old Rockefeller Republican to put on to bash Bush?

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:07:45 pm ET)

I'm talking about a guy – like General Eisenhower's son, also a general – who was Republican to the core. Partisan. Plugged in. Believed in the party's principles. But he votes on substance, and he knows the substance, and he hates what this administration has done.

Josh Burek (Fri. 10/8, 10:08:00 pm ET)

Lest we drift to an argument about the Al Franken show, may I suggest we turn up the volume on our TV sets?

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:08:43 pm ET)

If I do that, Bush will be yelling too loud for comfort.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:08:56 pm ET)

But I will boost the font size on the subtitles.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 10:09:30 pm ET)

The John Eisenhower endorsement of Kerry is an interesting little historical curlicue, I'll grant you. Is there a website somewhere on which Eisenhower has placed a statement, explaining his decision? Anyway, my point is that Reagan (sorry, just mentioned my hero again) transformed the GOP. Ike's son, Train – these folks come from a different era. But back to this debate....

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:10:15 pm ET)

Bush looked like a leering gargoyle on that timber company joke. I mean that entirely in the spirit of nonpartisan, clinical analysis.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 10:10:22 pm ET)

"I own a timber company?" Bush scored there. It's not all that big a deal, I suppose, but where on earth did that Kerry charge come from?

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 10:11:20 pm ET)

A leering gargoyle? My friend, you're looking at the wrong statue on the cathedral. St. Michael the archangel – light, soaring, victorious. That's my Prez.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:12:54 pm ET)

Oh goodness. Well, St. Michael may be in for a surprise when he gets to heaven and is formally rebuked for skipping church on most Sundays. Great article in The New Republic on Bush's indifference to church attendance – it wouldn't be politically significant, except that Bush and his supporters use the Bible to carry their political water with such regularity.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 10:13:31 pm ET)

WHY does Kerry keep leading with long lists of names? Does he really think people want to hear endorsements? That a single undecided voter knows or cares who Sensenbrenner or Racicot are?

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 10:14:27 pm ET)

The Gipper seldom made it to church on Sundays, either, James. He considered it unseemly to disrupt services, which a visit by a president always did. My guess is that Dubya feels the same way.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:14:31 pm ET)

I think you may be right on that, Peter. It's not the most compelling part of his attack. And it's not as though he's a nobody at this point, who needs the validation of big names.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:14:56 pm ET)

Ah, this stem cell question is pretty intense – Kerry, again, connecting with the audience, addressing the person before hitting the issue.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 10:15:02 pm ET)

Absolutely fascinating: The stem cell question, put the other way around from the usual way. A good one. Kudos once again to Charlie for choosing it.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:15:15 pm ET)

And he's answering an essentially emotional question with an emotional anecdote. Smart.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:15:37 pm ET)

And getting back onto the "usual" turf, which is Kerry's.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 10:16:30 pm ET)

Could prove effective, I'll grant you. But the suggestion that opposition to embryonic stem cell research is "essentially emotional" is one that I cannot permit to stand. Read my colleague Ramesh Ponnuru at National Review. The position is thoroughly principled. Now, to see what Dubya does with it.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:17:01 pm ET)

Hmm. Bush is hitting this without waffling – very forthright embrace of his pro-life bona fides. That earns some points from me, at the very least.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 10:17:55 pm ET)

I couldn't agree more. This response from Bush is deeply-felt, well-spoken – entirely authentic. In some ways, this is his best moment in either debate.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:18:06 pm ET)

I don't think "principled" and "emotional" are necessarily at odds. I just think that declaring stem cells as "life" that needs to be preserved in the same way as human life is preserved is not based in anything resembling unimpeachable reason or logic.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 10:18:59 pm ET)

An embryo is most definitely – even obviously – a) human, and b) alive. THAT'S why the researchers want them in the first place.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:19:28 pm ET)

A side note: I think both candidates are holding up fairly well this far into the debate.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 10:19:30 pm ET)

Kerry's attack on Bush's stem cell decision was flatly dishonest. There's some moral cowardice there.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:19:52 pm ET)

Both are cogent, if a bit slower and more civil.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 10:20:27 pm ET)

Spontaneity and humor. Dubya's settling and improving as this goes along, whereas Kerry's best performance took place at the very top. Would you agree?

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:21:13 pm ET)

He almost had that Dred Scott thing ... if only he'd remembered "all men are created equal." That said, yes, I think Bush is at his best near the end. Kerry seems a little tired / worn down.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 10:22:15 pm ET)

I'd love to know what both sides were thinking when they agreed on a 90-minute format. In neither debate has either of these guys proven capable of a consistently strong performance across the whole hour-and-a-half.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:22:19 pm ET)

Kerry's analysis of the Supreme Court Judge question is about 100 times more presidential than Bush's – incredibly eloquent. Inspiring, frankly. I think... I think I'm going to vote for him.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 10:23:23 pm ET)

Are you being serious? Or just a salty partisan to keep our exchange moving along? Because I had exactly the opposite response: That Bush was high and noble on the Supreme Court whereas Kerry once again gave us mere words.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:24:43 pm ET)

Kerry's answer to the abortion question is courageous, and incredibly American – he's personally religious, but believes in a secular, evenhanded America. Naturally, Bush will slaughter him on this.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 10:25:51 pm ET)

"I'm trying to decipher that." Beautiful.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:26:15 pm ET)

Yeah, Bush is doing great with this one.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:26:56 pm ET)

Kerry stuck his neck out, which I admire. Is he better potential president? Yes. Is he a better candidate? Right now, no.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 10:27:04 pm ET)

Bush is taking the abortion question straight on: No waffling, not even any sign that he'd like to shade the edges. Guts.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:27:56 pm ET)

It's not really guts, though. His base demands simplistic, complete dedication to an anti-choice, anti birth control agenda – he delivers. He has to.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 10:28:26 pm ET)

Honestly, James, I'm shocked – truly – once again. Kerry knows perfectly well, because everyone who has cared to inform himself on the issue knows--that partial birth abortions are not medically necessary. Dishonesty again.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:28:33 pm ET)

Ah, the fabled "mistake" question.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 10:28:56 pm ET)

Wrong decisions: Another very fine and entirely fair question.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:28:59 pm ET)

"A lot of tactical decisions." Does he take responsibility for Tora Bora here?

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:29:24 pm ET)

Of course not.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:29:34 pm ET)

Oh, and he's piling on by misrepresenting the Duelfer Report.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:30:04 pm ET)

David Kay – the former chief US weapons inspector – said of Bush's stance on Duelfer that "'denial' is not just a river in Egypt."

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 10:30:13 pm ET)

Aaaargh! That's my representation of the scream I just emitted. It's not Bush but Kerry who's misrepresenting the Duelfer report, James.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:30:25 pm ET)

Ah, so his one mistake is appointing Paul O'Neil, apparently.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:30:56 pm ET)

The one person in the administration at the top who respected facts, debate, and honest argument.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 10:30:59 pm ET)

Paul O'Neill and Larry Lindsey. That's two.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:31:39 pm ET)

Bush's answer to this question is one of the most craven, self-serving, embarrassing things he's ever said. It's going to hurt him.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 10:31:56 pm ET)

Senator Lugar, Senator Hagel. Why does Kerry insist on listing names rather than making arguments in his own behalf?

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:32:05 pm ET)

I should qualify: It'll hurt him if the media pounces on it.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:32:35 pm ET)

Lugar and Hagel are important names right now, Peter – they're Republican senators who are talking straight on the war.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:32:45 pm ET)

It would be a mistake to not mention those two names.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 10:33:20 pm ET)

Bush wins this one: Authentic outrage.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:34:25 pm ET)

Authentic? As far as I can tell from this debate, Bush has two buttons: "jocular jokester" and "hoppin' mad." How can you differentiate his authentic outrage from a playacted tantrum? Or a simple loss of control?

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:34:54 pm ET)

Peter: Who won this one? And by how much? And why?

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 10:35:47 pm ET)

The closing statement is the moment to tell a moving, memorable story that brings it all together. Kerry is simply offering a rat-a-tat-tat delivery of his policy positions. Does he really believe anybody is going to remember any of these words five minutes from now?

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 10:36:39 pm ET)

Bush's closing statement is better: Where we were, were we are. He's conveying the arc of a story.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:37:22 pm ET)

I'll give you that. Bush's is better, particularly if you don't think too hard about the four or five spots where the record sneaks up on it and clobbers it with facts.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 10:37:44 pm ET)

Who won? On style, I score the first third or so for Kerry, the middle third a draw, and the final third for Bush. Astonishing, really, that Bush did best on domestic questions.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:38:10 pm ET)

I agree – I didn't think Bush would rise to the domestic questions to the extent that he did. This last debate may be rough for Kerry.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:38:31 pm ET)

I suspect the polls will come out close to even on this one – they both did pretty well, but not dazzlingly well.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 10:38:49 pm ET)

On substance, though, Bush won. By which I mean that, even if he did so artlessly, even stumblingly, at times, he nevertheless told people where he stands – and he stands, I believe, where a shade more than 50 percent of voters stand.

James Norton (Fri. 10/8, 10:39:44 pm ET)

I'm not sure that "articulating where you stand" is the sum total of "substance." I'd like to think that substance includes an honest consultation with the record (say, re: the Medicare bill, re: the Iraq war, re: the nature of the tax cuts) and an informative recapitulation of those facts.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 10:40:17 pm ET)

It sounds corny, but it needs to be said: Even though there were moments when we both cringed, wishing our candidates had found better answers, more poise, or whatever, this was still a thoroughly remarkable event: Two men, speaking their minds as best they could, civilly, before the voters of the greatest democracy on the planet.

Peter Robinson (Fri. 10/8, 10:41:54 pm ET)

As always, a pleasure. Until next time.

Josh Burek (Fri. 10/8, 10:41:20 pm ET)

Gentlemen: thank you both for an engaging discussion. We'll look forward to a final session of Diablog during the last of these three presidential debates, this Wednesday, Oct. 13 at 9pm ET.

 • Read the transcript of the Diablog from the first presidential debate, held Thursday, Sept. 30, at the University of Miami, in Coral Gables, Fla.

 • Next diablog: The final presidential debate will be held Oct. 13 at Arizona State University, in Tempe, Ariz.