Diablog: Real-time repartee

During each convention night's keynote address, watch political analysts and keyboard comedians Peter Robinson and James Norton exchange wit and wisdom in a real-time format.

Join us each convention night at 10pm (ET).

 • Read the transcript of Monday night's Diablog, featuring commentary on John McCain and Rudy Giuliani
 • Read the transcript of Tuesday night's Diablog, featuring commentary on Arnold Schwarzenegger and Laura Bush
 • Read the transcript of Wednesday night's Diablog, featuring commentary on Zell Miller and Dick Cheney
 • Thursday night (Sept. 2): President Bush

Transcript of Thursday's Diablog, featuring commentary on President Bush:

Josh Burek (Thu. 9/2, 9:53:18 pm ET)

Welcome to "Diablog: real-time repartee." As always, we're delighted to welcome back, from the right, Peter Robinson, and from the left, James Norton. Peter and James, great to have you with us.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 9:53:55 pm ET)

Delighted to be back. What do you make of your governor, Pataki, James?

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 9:54:30 pm ET)

I must admit – he's made very little impression upon me.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 9:54:46 pm ET)

If he thinks he's going to challenge Giuliani in 2008, he's kidding himself.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 9:55:07 pm ET)

So far, ditto. (I can say that, safe from the reproaches of New York Republicans, because I'm typing this happily ensconced in California.)

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 9:55:10 pm ET)

Oh – I should add that it's my pleasure to back for one last chat.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 9:55:51 pm ET)

It always throws me when I hear about a Republican who's happy in California... you guys are a sweet, semi-domesticated breed, apparently...

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 9:56:21 pm ET)

If you close your eyes and try to imagine the text – not the way he's delivering this speech, but the way it would appear in writing – you can see that it's not really all that bad a speech. But it fails the first test of any political speech: It's completely unsuited to the man delivering it.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 9:57:01 pm ET)

It's hard to tell on my choppy online C-SPAN connection, but I don't think Bush is ascending through the floor as rumor had it he would.

Josh Burek (Thu. 9/2, 9:57:04 pm ET)

Do either of you expect Bush to make some type of bold new policy proposal?

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 9:57:27 pm ET)

Oh, something I want to mention before W. speaks. He may win me over on this point, but, in principle at least, I don't like the idea of this whole "theater in the round" thing. He's the president of the United States, not an afternoon talk show host, for goodness's sake.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 9:57:55 pm ET)

What is this music...? Could anything be less suited to the gravity of the situation?

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 9:58:17 pm ET)

I realize I sound about 78 when I write that, but, seriously, this seems to be exactly wrong for the moment.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 9:58:22 pm ET)

New proposals? Yes, indeed. I expect him to lay out his overall aims for a second term for the first time. (In his last State of the Union Address, he spoke almost exclusively about what he'd already done. He made virtually no attempt at laying out an agend. Tonight, he'd better.)

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 9:58:42 pm ET)

Josh, as to your question – yes, I think he'll have to say something to really bump the headlines.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 9:59:13 pm ET)

Can't make the music out very clearly, but it's vaguely reminiscent of early rock, isn't it? Almost Bill Haley-ish?

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 9:59:17 pm ET)

Maybe an economic stimulus of some sort, designed to look like a rebate to entrepenuers. My apologies on the spelling there.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:00:25 pm ET)

Spelling forgiven. (Democrats think of entrepreneurship so seldom, it's no wonder they can't spell it. My, my. Have I just taken the first shot of the evening?)

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:00:52 pm ET)

That was the Brian Setzer Orchestra.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:01:18 pm ET)

Research credit: Google. And let the videography begin.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:01:35 pm ET)

My goodness, they got the guy from Law & Order!

Josh Burek (Thu. 9/2, 10:01:43 pm ET)

Which narrator will swing voters take to most: Morgan Freeman or Fred Thompson?

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:01:44 pm ET)

That's quite a coup.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:02:02 pm ET)

Who the heck is the voice narrating this? Oh, Fred Thompson. Thought it sounded familiar. English has no words for this kind of thing. Fortunately, Yiddish does. Schmaltz.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:02:25 pm ET)

I think any GOP video should stay as far away from mentioning "keeping secrets" as possible at this point.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:02:44 pm ET)

Sorry to say this, but Morgan Freeman simply oozes dignity and command. I could listen to him for hours, even if he were merely narrating more tapes about John Kerry.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:03:26 pm ET)

The fireman's voice – much, much better. Complete authenticity.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:03:51 pm ET)

This is tremendous. Confected coverage of a confected event. Not that I'm faulting Bush for the original appearance. But it's not surprising to see it be used as a campaign mainstay.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:04:40 pm ET)

Arlene Howard. I wrote about this in my little piece in The New York Times today, if I'm allowed to mention a competing publication.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:05:09 pm ET)

Again, pretty bold use of 9/11 deaths as campaign footage. Giuliani's narration of the person falling from the towers – leading up to "Thank God George W. Bush is president!" was shameless.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:06:48 pm ET)

There, James, I disagree. As oversweet as the telling is – and I wouldn't dissent from your use of the word "confection" – these events happened. He did behave as described. This is entirely legitimate – and, let's face it, no more oversweet than the campaign video for Kerry.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:06:54 pm ET)

What an incredible act of courage – appearing at a baseball game to throw out the first pitch in front of a huge crowd waving American flags.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:07:42 pm ET)

The big difference is this: Kerry's video described a man who actually risked his life under enemy fire. Bush's video describes a man who was campaigning immediately after 9/11, and campaigning hard.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:07:49 pm ET)

Yes, you're right: The idea that we ought to vote for him because he has a good arm is simply and utterly ridiculous. I hereby declare that segment completely over the top.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:08:17 pm ET)

I'm starting to hate this buildup. Is he about to descend from the ceiling?

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:08:47 pm ET)

I think a parachute jump in full flight suit would have been a nice touch. But he went for "classy."

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:09:07 pm ET)

So far, nothing but cotton candy. He'd better cut the fluff the moment he starts to speak.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:09:35 pm ET)

I remember this moment at the 2000 RNC – really an amazing, amazing time. I was just crushed by emotion. It's such a spectacle to be there when the nominee makes his entrance.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:10:58 pm ET)

I think we'll see some new policy tonight. I'd be surprised and a little disappointed if we didn't see that and a hard but seemingly genial shot or two against Kerry.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:11:10 pm ET)

You know what? I was in Philly too – but seated way, way up high, with an oblique view of the floor. I got the same feeling then that I have now: I don't like it. This glorification of a single individual is just very hard to take. I suppose in a presidential system it's inevitable. But it makes it that much more important for the candidate himself to behave with humility and humor.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:11:44 pm ET)

Did a count today: In his 1980 acceptance speech, Reagan mentioned Jimmy Carter by name – made direct attacks, in other words – seven times.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:11:45 pm ET)

Well, there we are – he's officially running on the "I was President When Sept. 11 Happened" platform.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:12:42 pm ET)

Seven times. Okay, let's make tally marks as the speech unwinds. I suspect we'll see fewer than seven. Bush isn't great on the attack.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:12:49 pm ET)

Something's wrong when I spend so much time agreeing with you, James, but I agree: He's making a mistake if he permits the GOP convention to be reduced to a single point, the war on terror, as completely as the Demo convention was reduced to the single point of the Vietnam war.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:13:19 pm ET)

I've got my pen already to make the hashmarks every time he utters the word "Kerry."

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:14:18 pm ET)

I don't think I would have started the speech in exactly this manner; shout-outs, while important, seem to deflate the speech's momentum. Although they may serve to make Bush feel more comfortable, and get up to speed at the lectern.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:14:55 pm ET)

And, to his credit, he's made being an unpolished public speaker into a real asset, as a totem of "authenticity."

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:15:40 pm ET)

This is his father in him. I can't tell you how many times I tried to get the old man to start a speech with the speech. He would absolutely insist instead on thanking everybody in the room, giving a preamble that would often run on for 15 or 20 minutes.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:16:15 pm ET)

"Two months from today...." Here we go. He's finally reached the body of his text. Nice change of gears. Suddenly dignified, well-paced.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:16:42 pm ET)

Again, it's more about the bites and the bounce these days than the speech as whole artifact. But it is sort of disappointing it's been such a fluffy start. Even this school stuff is reassuringly vague.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:17:38 pm ET)

Oh, mentioning Medicare is a mistake. Seniors know that was a disaster. Bush actively fought to keep the government from being able to use its size to bargain with drug companies to get citizens lower prices on their drugs... that will come back to haunt him.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:17:42 pm ET)

No Child Left Behind, now Medicare, tied together with "nothing will hold us back," a tag line that doesn't really have a darned thing to do with his recitation of the record. This just ain't all that good.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:18:33 pm ET)

Here's the body: I am resolute. I don't change my mind. I know good from evil. You can count on me to stay the course. Don't change horses in midstream.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:18:51 pm ET)

Doggone. Now a word on foreign policy. So far, this thing seems structureless.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:19:03 pm ET)

In trying times, it's a smart theme.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:19:42 pm ET)

Yes. "Steady, consistent, principled leadership." That's the theme.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:19:58 pm ET)

I can't believe his gall at bringing back "compassionate conservatism." The one group of people left out from his massive tax cut were people too poor to pay income taxes, who therefore pay payroll taxes.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:20:55 pm ET)

"Extending the boundaries of freedom..." A million miles from Jim Baker's "we don't have a dog in that fight," referring to the Balkans. But Jim Baker and Paul Wolfowitz are amazingly different people...

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:21:17 pm ET)

Valid point about payroll taxes, which are, of course, regressive. But just wait until W. is reelected...and he reforms Social Security. There's at least a chance he'll address those stinkin' payroll taxes.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:23:45 pm ET)

To translate "make tax relief permanent": "transfer giant amounts of wealth to the richest Americans." Republicans are always talking about the evils of redistributing wealth... this guy is Public Enemy No. 1.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:24:49 pm ET)

Ah, "tax simplification." Much like "environmental regulation simplification," it no doubt involves burning down the entire code to the great benefit of those owning large companies and/or huge overseas assets.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:24:52 pm ET)

There you go again, again (henceforth TYGAA). The less taxpayers earn, the larger a proportionate tax cut they received.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:25:34 pm ET)

This is the genius of Bush and Company: Plunder like crazy for the top 1 percent, sell it as populism.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:26:05 pm ET)

More dough for job training and community colleges. He's just done it, embracing David Brooks's notion of big-government conservatism (and offending a small-government conservative such as yours truly).

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:26:19 pm ET)

TYGAA.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:26:27 pm ET)

Ah, that's true. The tax CUTS go way up based on your wealth. But the taxes are increasingly slanted in favor of people with huge assets – as opposed to people working for a living, and making their money via salaries.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:27:03 pm ET)

This must be the "Ownership Society" I've heard so much about on the Internet's political fringes...

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:27:39 pm ET)

Now he's going to start monkeying around in the health insurance markets. Oh, wait a minute. Tax credits and health savings accounts – that IS a conservative notion. Could prove very, very effective.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:28:27 pm ET)

The Internet's fringes? Where, precisely, would you find the Internet's mainstream? I thought the whole point of the Internet was that everybody got to have the fun of his own fringe.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:28:38 pm ET)

I wish I could credibly analyze this economic program on the fly, but I have to admit – without the specifics, it's just rhetoric. And this administration's track record on economic issues has been poor to date, so I'm inherently suspicious.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:29:18 pm ET)

Here's a really interesting point: Kerry/Edwards should have been pushing medical liability reform months ago. But a form that actually protected patients and doctors, as opposed to the GOP's favorite donors, the insurance companies.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:29:45 pm ET)

Roger that. Analysis will have to follow. But the idea of ownership – of health care savings accounts, retirement accounts, and so forth – could prove powerful. But it's hard to know in any detail just where he's going.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:29:48 pm ET)

It won't be D.C. bureaucrats writing tort reform; it'll be lobbyists for Aetna and The Prudential.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:30:02 pm ET)

He just said it: "Ownership society."

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:30:35 pm ET)

Here's a great goal he could set: Not having negative job growth over the course of his term in office.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:30:51 pm ET)

But he's smart to put the spotlight on one of the few economic bright spots, home ownership.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:30:57 pm ET)

But where's the overarching theme here? I'm on his side, of course, but if you didn't know this was an acceptance speech, James, wouldn't you have been tempted to guess that it was the sort of laundry list of initiatives that you'd get in a State of the Union Address?

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:31:42 pm ET)

It is a little laundry-listesque. Perhaps he was inspired by the raging success of Gore's "lockbox" proposal?

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:32:30 pm ET)

Heath care savings accounts, personal retirement accounts. No romance or poetry in this stuff, but it's good stuff all the same – the introduction of a fundamentally new way of looking at government programs.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:32:46 pm ET)

I just can't imagine a working person anywhere – particularly in Ohio or Pennsylvania – hearing this and really believing any kind of economic help was on the way. It was too scattered and vague.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:33:27 pm ET)

What bloc (or blocs) of voters is he reaching out to, here?

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:34:05 pm ET)

Scattered and vague. Exactly. I know it's my job to stick up for him in this diablog, but so far I am completely and utterly underwhelmed. This convention had a head of steam. He is now permitting it to fizz away.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:34:42 pm ET)

Bush's 2004 budget challenges the soft bigotry of funding vocational and technical education – cutting federal grants by 24 percent ($307 million).

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:35:02 pm ET)

Shall we switch sides for a moment? You stick up for this speech, okay?

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:35:16 pm ET)

I think his tie looks terrific.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:35:31 pm ET)

The soft – but masculine blue – says "steady leadership in a time of change" to me.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:35:41 pm ET)

"We are making progress, and there is more to do." Tired and boring.

Josh Burek (Thu. 9/2, 10:36:15 pm ET)

Quid pro quo, Peter. Say something nice about John Kerry.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:36:34 pm ET)

I'm getting bummed. I even think that tie should be red, not blue. [Pause while I slap both sides of my face.] There. I feel better now.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:36:35 pm ET)

Yes, and "leave no child behind" has lost a lot its pop after being presented publicly for the 2000th time. Is it possible that this speech was written simply to be gaffe-free? That it's a place holder, a safety speech?

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:36:58 pm ET)

John Kerry's shirts are way, way cool. (Also, unless I'm very much mistaken, handmade. Teresa, no doubt.)

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:37:05 pm ET)

That the campaign knows that it will win by using surrogates to destroy Kerry, not by having Bush sell himself to the nation in prime time?

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:37:18 pm ET)

Kerry! First hash mark.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:38:36 pm ET)

Oh my goodness. Hello! Pot! Kettle is on the phone! He has a comment about your pigmentation!

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:38:38 pm ET)

These attacks are the best-written part of the speech so far.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:38:54 pm ET)

This administration has been a veritable Roman orgy of tax-and-spend.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:39:00 pm ET)

Well, spend, anyway.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:39:05 pm ET)

Mostly spend.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:40:00 pm ET)

Yeah! Stick it to those remaining lazy welfare mothers! Caring for the weak means getting them into Hardee's for a 12-hour shift.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:40:19 pm ET)

You're right about the spending, too. Will you stop? I mean, stop being right?

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:40:52 pm ET)

Heh, I'll do my best to fall back on some faulty liberal shibboleths from here on in...

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:41:03 pm ET)

No overarching theme. No stories or examples to show how his proposals would affect the lives of everyday Americans. Just astonishing.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:41:32 pm ET)

Interesting point: Kerry never mentioned judges in his speech, did he?

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:41:47 pm ET)

Dahlia Lithwick on Slate has a terrific piece on Republican "re-activist" judges – I recommend it to anyone who is shaken up by a party that was voted in by Supreme Court fiat criticizing judges who think civil rights should be protected by courts.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:42:26 pm ET)

Once again, the attack is better than the rest of the speech.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:42:55 pm ET)

Ah, now he's heading for the kill.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:43:14 pm ET)

Quick question: He's speaking as if he were at a conventional lectern, not in the middle of a theater-in-the-round. Do you see the point of placing him in the middle of the hall like this? Doesn't even seem to have affected the camera angles.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:43:14 pm ET)

The implicit message: I am against terrorism. Kerry is not entirely sure where he stands.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:44:02 pm ET)

That's it: The defense of the nation. I wish he felt as comfortable, as completely convinced, talking about a few things in addition to that. But on that, he's compelling.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:44:13 pm ET)

I think his placement is solid, insomuch as you get the initial shot of him working the room, and the closing shot of him swarmed by supporters...though it means little during the speech, I'd agree.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:44:56 pm ET)

That's it: The opening and closing shots. That's the point of this platform. You're quite right.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:45:59 pm ET)

Again, that elephant in the room – we'd be safer if we hadn't fought the wrong war. Remember when he said: "Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised"?

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:46:22 pm ET)

No matter how much immediate comfort his words on security bring, another attack in Iraq will take this issue away from him.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:46:33 pm ET)

Can you figure out what's going on? Who's being hustled out of the hall?

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:47:24 pm ET)

The truly loony thing about that statement – how do we KNOW how many people are leading Al Qaeda right now? They've splintered into groups across Asia and the Middle East. Iraq is the best recruiting poster and training ground they could have ever asked for.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:47:28 pm ET)

Not sure I follow you there. "Another attack in Iraq." You mean another bombing? But they've been going on for weeks and weeks. Why should one more change the fundamental political complexion of things? (I'm not being tendentious. I genuinely don't follow you there.)

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:48:06 pm ET)

No, I didn't see that – was it a protestor, perhaps? The security has been lousy... a guy from our station made it and backstage with little difficulty. I think other journalists have done the same.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:48:33 pm ET)

Another impromptu protest? He needs to respond somehow – with a quip, a comment.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:50:35 pm ET)

No, better to let the protest go – pretend they don't exist unless backed against the wall.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:51:04 pm ET)

Present the picture that everyone – the Iraqis, the UN, the crowd, New Yorkers -- everyone except wrongheaded ol' John Kerry – supports the Prez.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:51:26 pm ET)

Like America kept its word to rebuild Afghanistan?

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:52:00 pm ET)

And look out for the health and freedom of Afghan women? That country is a shameful shambles thanks to Team Bush's longstanding obsession with the Iraq domino theory of Mideast dominance.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:52:59 pm ET)

Hang on there. We're spending several billion in Afghanistan this year alone – and as Bill Safire pointed out the other day, virtually every adult in the country has registered to vote in what I believe will be the first national elections in Afghan history. The new Afghanistan is far from perfect, obviously, but it truly does represent a historic achievement.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:53:51 pm ET)

Elections, elections, elections...is that all you've got? The only part of Afghanistan controlled by legitimate authority is Kabul. During the day.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:54:03 pm ET)

You're flatly mistaken about Afghanistan, amigo. Women there are incomparably freer than they were under the Taliban – they've been freed from religious dress, permitted to attend schools, and given the vote. Huge.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:54:30 pm ET)

Elections, all I've got? How very interesting. My liberal friend considers elections...trivial.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:54:34 pm ET)

Opium is booming, the Taliban has regrouped, and the anti-American mullahs are teaching the children.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:55:20 pm ET)

That statement about giving troops all the support they need is great...but the Pentagon pushed for reducing "imminent danger pay" by $75/month and family separation allowances.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:55:35 pm ET)

He's shying from calling Kerry by name – only done that once, by my count--but he has referred to "my opponent" six times so far, as best I've been able to keep track.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:56:04 pm ET)

Ah, this charge drives me nuts. Kerry voted to fund the troops – out of Bush's irresponsible tax cut. He voted symbolically against Bush's bill, which was guaranteed to pass.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:57:00 pm ET)

so, Italy, Australia, Poland and UK. True. Not Russia, China, the UN, the British public, the Arab states, Turkey, Scandinavia...

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:57:15 pm ET)

"Coerced and bribed." Where did Kerry use that language? I don't recall.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:57:46 pm ET)

Also among "the others": Mongolia. Macedonia. Latvia. Contributing dozens...sometimes more than 100...troops each. Compared to his father's coalition, absolute peanuts.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:57:54 pm ET)

I don't recall, either.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 10:58:44 pm ET)

Seven Iraqi men, their hands cut off. Why didn't he START with that powerful story?

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 10:59:46 pm ET)

Well, it's another old chestnut – he's told it many times. And it's yet another "backup" reason for going into Iraq. It's not WMD and the immediate threat to the US.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 11:00:43 pm ET)

How does it advance freedom to leave Afghanistan a battered wreck? To abandon the Palestinian's to Sharon's every wishes? To put Iraq into total chaos?

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 11:01:25 pm ET)

I love the idea of bringing freedom to the Middle East and Central Asia – but what this administration's sloppy and reckless foreign policy has done is to light a half-dozen fires in the most sensitive region in the world.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 11:02:14 pm ET)

John Kerry knows foreign policy. His father was a diplomat. He broke down BCCI. He investigated Iran-Contra. He worked with John McCain to settle the POW-MIA issue. He's the man we need on this score.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 11:02:15 pm ET)

TYGAA. Afghanistan and Iraq are both unambiguously better off than they were, and improving. (I'm not touching Palestine/Israel, but only because it's almost impossible even to start that discussion without clearing about two hours to say what needs to be said.)

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 11:02:32 pm ET)

Admit it, James. That shot at The New York Times was a thing of beauty.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 11:03:13 pm ET)

Afghanistan is a narco-state that's in danger of being overrun by the same illegitimate government we threw out when we invaded.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 11:03:52 pm ET)

Ah, the poor battered Gray Lady. Such a great paper, but that Judith Miller WMD stuff is going to keep it on the ropes for a while.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 11:03:53 pm ET)

James, that assertion about Afghanistan is simply nonsense – real nonsense.

Josh Burek (Thu. 9/2, 11:04:12 pm ET)

Bush has mocked the Times before, when he marked the centennial of the Wright brothers' flight.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 11:04:51 pm ET)

What did he say about the Times at Kitty Hawk, Josh? I must have missed that one.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 11:04:52 pm ET)

Message: Bush policy spreads freedom. Freedom is God's will. Bush policy is God's will.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 11:05:38 pm ET)

What was Lincoln's quote...?That we can't hope that God is on our side, but that we must hope to be on God's side?

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 11:06:03 pm ET)

You assert that James, as if it were self-evidently risible. But are you so sure? Try this: Lincoln policy spreads freedom. Freedom is God's will. Lincoln's policy is God's will. Still crude. But not at all crazy, really, is it?

Josh Burek (Thu. 9/2, 11:06:17 pm ET)

Bush cited a Times editorial from 1903 suggesting that human flight would not become a mainstay of 20th century achievement.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 11:06:19 pm ET)

That Schwarzenegger line was great.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 11:07:03 pm ET)

Yes, he's finally coming to some relaxed, humorous material. Beautiful line about his mom. (I love her, but blunt she is.)

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 11:07:55 pm ET)

What lovable flaws. Blunt, plainspoken, a little swaggery. I wonder if he'll mention misleading a free society into war, approving memos that helped set the scenes for Abu Ghraib, and plundering the common treasury for his backers?

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 11:08:55 pm ET)

TYGAA.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 11:09:15 pm ET)

Heh, I'm glad we've got it down to a convenient abbreviation.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 11:09:33 pm ET)

This is good stuff. Powerful narrative, beautifully written, well-delivered.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 11:10:06 pm ET)

"Here buildings fell. Here a nation rose." At last. Truly solid, powerful, moving material.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 11:11:09 pm ET)

Oh, I wish I could believe in any of this. As rhetoric, it's very pleasing. But it's spoiled – again, and again – by knowing the way this government has exploited 9/11 to gut civil liberties, the funds needed for our common welfare, and our diplomatic ties.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 11:11:36 pm ET)

To everything, a season. Nice use of Ecclesiastes.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 11:12:10 pm ET)

I would ask any readers who doubt this to just pick up the past four or five issues of the Economist, or reading The Financial Times, or The Christian Science Monitor – any truly independent paper or magazine that can tell it like it really is.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 11:12:45 pm ET)

"Gut" civil liberties? Truly, you must be joking. I shot a show the other day with a rep from the ACLU who proved unable to name a SINGLE instance in which the Patriot Act had been abused, which leads me to suppose you'd have some trouble doing so yourself.

Josh Burek (Thu. 9/2, 11:13:39 pm ET)

James and Peter, a heartfelt thanks for your commanding commentary during two national conventions. Two parting questions: Who's going to win this November? And when we meet up again, in 2008, which candidates do you expect the parties will nominate?

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 11:15:36 pm ET)

Let me take a first crack at it. Kerry's mobilization of the grassroots – based on 527s and outraged average Americans – will bushwack the pollsters, and he'll win a tight – but clear victory in November.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 11:15:41 pm ET)

My prediction? This may shock you, gentlemen, but this Republican predicts that the winner will be...George W. Bush. (But by a narrow-ish margin, say a couple of percentage points.)

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 11:16:08 pm ET)

Look at that perfect balloon drop! We have better balloons than you guys did, James. Nyah, nyah.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 11:16:30 pm ET)

As for 2008, I think we'll see Kerry run again. Look for Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) in 2012, facing off against Rudy Giuliani.

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 11:16:51 pm ET)

Yes, the balloons are very nice. I notice they're imaginatively colored red, white, and blue.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 11:17:38 pm ET)

The Democratic candidate in 2008? Either Hillary or (as I tend to suspect is a little more likely) John Edwards. But I couldn't begin to name the Republican nominee – except to say that it for sure won't be Giuliani. (A pro-choice Republican may be okay in New York, but he couldn't possibly make it through the primaries in other states.)

James Norton (Thu. 9/2, 11:19:11 pm ET)

Let me say, Peter – it's been a real pleasure and an honor to go toe-to-toe throughout the RNC and DNC. You're tough, but fair. I was sweating throughout the process. And Josh, thanks for hosting and moderating.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 11:19:18 pm ET)

James, Josh, what fun this was. And what an honor to appear under the auspices of one of the nation's most completely impressive newspapers, the great Christian Science Monitor.

Josh Burek (Thu. 9/2, 11:19:38 pm ET)

A final thanks. Good night.

Peter Robinson (Thu. 9/2, 11:19:43 pm ET)

Gentlemen, until 2008.