Diablog: Real-time repartee

During each convention night's keynote address, watch political analysts and keyboard comedians Peter Robinson and James Norton exchange wit and wisdom in a real-time format.

Join us each convention night at 10pm (ET).

 • Read the transcript of Monday night's Diablog, featuring commentary on John McCain and Rudy Giuliani
 • Read the transcript of Tuesday night's Diablog, featuring commentary on Arnold Schwarzenegger and Laura Bush
 • Wednesday night (Sept. 1): Zell Miller/Dick Cheney
 • Thursday night (Sept. 2): President Bush

Transcript of Wednesday's Diablog, featuring commentary on Zell Miller and Dick Cheney:

Josh Burek (Wed. 9/1, 9:54:27 pm ET)

Welcome to Diablog: real-time repartee. We're delighted to welcome back, from the left, James Norton, and from the right, Peter Robinson. James and Peter, good to have you here. Before we listen to Zell Miller's remarks, I want to ask you both: What must Dick Cheney say tonight to convince the GOP faithful – and undecided voters – that he brings gravitas, and not gravity, to the presidential ticket?

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 9:55:49 pm ET)

I don't think Cheney can redeem himself from his attendant scandals and Dr. No image by merely giving a speech; the best he can hope to do tonight is to damage Kerry with a sharp and biting attack.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 9:55:59 pm ET)

There's not a thing at all he needs to do to convince the GOP faithful. They already love the man. What he needs to do to appeal to undecided voters, I think, is to make the case, engaging less in hot rhetoric than in deliberately stating the facts and the conclusions he draws from them.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 9:56:18 pm ET)

I think he'll play hatchet man to George W. Bush's explicitly optimistic – but tough and resolute – visionary.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 9:56:45 pm ET)

Good to see you in top vituperative form, James. Shall we shake hands, or shake weblogs, right now, like duellers before pacing off the distance?

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 9:57:24 pm ET)

Absolutely. I would be honored! [shakes virtual hands]

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 9:57:54 pm ET)

You are, as usual, onto something: Cheney will do something well-suited both to the vice presidency and to the workings of his own mind, namely, go on the attack. But I'd repeat: He needs to do so in a deliberate way. Nothing wrong with showing depth of feeling. But not before an almost lawyerly building of the case contra your boy Kerry.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 9:58:13 pm ET)

[Shakes virtual hands right back.]

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 9:58:27 pm ET)

Also, I don't mean to seem vituperative; I'll do my level best to point out Cheney's various financial, political, and moral failings as vice president in a way that's as genteel as a southern gentleman on Sunday.

Josh Burek (Wed. 9/1, 9:59:11 pm ET)

I can't help but ask a pressing question as I watch these delegates dance: Which party has the better sense of rhythm?

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 9:59:22 pm ET)

One more preliminary comment about Cheney, if I may: It really is astounding that he holds the second-highest office in the land. He's a kind of Unpolitician – he's never even mastered the politician's most basic skill, smiling, let alone an easy or happy approach to campaigning.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 9:59:25 pm ET)

I think his lawerly case will rest heavily on debunked innuendos – the $87 billion canard, for example. Or the litany of cut weapons systems that Cheney, himself, also advocated cutting.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 9:59:59 pm ET)

Better rhythm? Not even close, I'm afraid. That would be James's party. (But Republicans have better country music bands at their events.)

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:00:01 pm ET)

Democrats got more soul. You can ask Frank Newport over at Gallup; it's a nonpartisan fact.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:00:57 pm ET)

I think Cheney's asset has been projecting competence and seriousness. I liked him very much before 2000.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:01:20 pm ET)

Well, we shall see. A striking point about this campaign: Between Kerry's emphasis on his brief (but, I grant, largely heroic) stint in Vietnam, and then his finding himself on the defensive about same ever since the Democratic convention, almost no one has actually given any sustained attention to Kerry's 20 years in the Senate. I have a sneaking suspicion Cheney will remedy that little lack.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:01:34 pm ET)

Yup. Serious and competence R Him.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:01:40 pm ET)

I thought he'd be a steady hand on the ship of state that George W. Bush would otherwise run aground. Little did I know he'd be loading all the treasure chests into the lifeboat and stripping the rigging for resale.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:02:20 pm ET)

[Shakes head and smiles, Gipper-like] Well, Jim, there you go again.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:02:40 pm ET)

I think, in retrospect, Kerry made a major blunder by not making the DNC more about the state of the economy – and how it can be turned around – and about his remarkable prosecutorial career in the Senate.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:02:54 pm ET)

Ah, here comes Zell, a Democrat for Bush. James, whatever we say to each other in the next couple of hours, I love ya, man.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:03:05 pm ET)

Ooh, that was a low blow. Darn, you voiceover! "Conscience of the Democratic Party..." ugh. Ptooi.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:03:22 pm ET)

Yes! It would have been MUCH better for Kerry if he'd concentrated on the economy.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:03:48 pm ET)

"Ptooi?" That would be Greek, perhaps? In Homer somewhere?

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:04:25 pm ET)

Thucydides, actually...

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:04:25 pm ET)

An emphatic, dogged attack. He's coming out snarling.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:04:59 pm ET)

The GOP's going to eat this up. Everyone loves conversion stories, and folksy rusticness. He's got buckets of both.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:05:26 pm ET)

But I think it's very much a man-bites-dog story – if Miller was a Republican, no one would know his name outside of Georgia.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:05:55 pm ET)

Gee, if he handles this, it could prove very effective: A southern boy, from the back hills, raised during the Depression and the War. In other words, a Democrat more or less from birth. And now he's for W? Pretty darned good stuff.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:06:21 pm ET)

It would be good stuff if represented any actual shifting in the electorate.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:06:37 pm ET)

Independents are either moving toward Kerry or standing still, repulsed by all sides.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:06:40 pm ET)

Man bites dog? True enough. You'd say the same about Ron Reagan's address in Boston, though, right? And isn't the point here to make Democrats feel comfortable with the idea of voting for W?

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:07:02 pm ET)

Wow! "The Democrats' manic obsession." This is politics with the bark off.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:07:13 pm ET)

Gore voters are switching to Bush in much smaller numbers than the reverse (granted: the polling on this is weak, but the anecdotal evidence seems strong as it can be.)

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:07:43 pm ET)

Agreed again: Politics is a practical art, which means it must be judged by whether it works. So we won't know whether Zell actually gave a good speech until we see poll numbers.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:07:59 pm ET)

What's terrible about this attack is that it's a call for bipartisanship... the Democrats GAVE Bush bipartisanship, and he rammed through a tax package and a hastily thought-through failed war.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:08:51 pm ET)

Still, he does have a certain Charleston Heston-as-Moses magnetism.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:09:03 pm ET)

In its way, this is perfectly astonishing: The Democrats are hot in their anger against W, but they kept it all contained, or offstage, or whatever, in Boston. But here are the Republicans, the milquetoasts of American politics, listening to white hot anger.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:09:32 pm ET)

Wow! "It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press." That is a really beautiful line!

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:09:34 pm ET)

A scary, Old Testament speaker, firing up the faithful and hammering on the deep core values. Good stuff for the base, maybe not so palatable for anyone else.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:10:24 pm ET)

Yes, but the anger, the Jeremiah-like delivery, do bear on the central message of this convention: namely, that this election MATTERS.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:10:46 pm ET)

I'm not sure how you can be "milquetoast" while gutting federal regulation to protect the environment, alienating most of your country's allies, harassing peaceful protestors, and conducting energy policy in secret...but I guess you're just talkin' rhetoric.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:11:36 pm ET)

Ah, there's nothing wrong with tying Kerry to Kennedy. That's a good gambit. Kennedy's got 30 years of GOP slime hanging off of his suitcoat. You're just plucking a well-tuned string there.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:11:46 pm ET)

TYGA. ["There You Go Again," which I'm shortening to mere initials, so sure am I that I'll need to type it a lot this evening.]

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:12:35 pm ET)

Ah, the litany of weapons Kerry opposed. Vice President Cheney: Opposed the Apache Helicopter. The Bradley Fighting Vehicle. Blackhawk Helicopter. Tomahawk Missiles.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:12:54 pm ET)

James, purely as an exercise in a particular political genre, the attack speech, this is really, really good: Specific, deeply-felt, rousing.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:13:18 pm ET)

I could go on, and on, and on... this is an incredibly dirty attack on Kerry. Post Cold War, there was a bipartisan consensus to cut the military; Cheney was at the forefront. Kerry was one of many Senators involved.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:13:33 pm ET)

It is a good attack speech – it's got moral fervor.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:13:37 pm ET)

TYGA. Cheney added a lot more to the arsenal than he cut.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:14:18 pm ET)

As did Kerry. Kerry voted for more than 80 weapons systems and $4.4 trillion in military spending.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:14:34 pm ET)

Yes, you're right about the post-Cold War consensus, also that to be fair the speech would need to distinguish between the consensus and Kerry – that is to say, demonstrate that Kerry was (as he certainly was) to the left of that consensus.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:15:19 pm ET)

I think it's fair to say Kerry was to the left of the mainstream on many issues; his constituency, of course, was Massachusetts. But to portray him as someone fundamentally trying to undermine our armed services is dirty fighting.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:15:23 pm ET)

"For more than 20 years." There it is, the central avenue of attack. Completely legitimate to take on Kerry's record, right? I mean, you guys ought even to see it as a relief, after all the SwiftVet attacks on Kerry's four months in Vietnam.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:16:18 pm ET)

What would be a genuine relief – and I say this as a detached observer of American politics, not just a Kerry supporter – would be good, clean attacks that are based on logic and facts, not emotion and sets of anecdotes pointing toward false conclusions.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:16:59 pm ET)

Of course, there is this: The President is always more vulnerable on such turf. His record is much bigger, and much more assaultable than that of a senator.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:17:12 pm ET)

Another point just struck: The sheer energy that Miller is displaying. Did you see clips of Kerry's speech to the American Legion earlier today? There's something almost narcoleptic about him – slow, ponderous, almost disassociated from his words.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:17:29 pm ET)

But Bush could be running a Rose Garden campaign if Iraq and the economy weren't in such bad – or, to be very generous – middling and mixed, states.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:17:55 pm ET)

No, Miller is great – I hate to fall back on this metaphor, but the man is fiery. Taut. Angry.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:18:23 pm ET)

I think he's righteously angry at what he views as the Democratic Party's snobbery toward mountain folk and rural folk like himself.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:18:31 pm ET)

"The man I trust to protect...my family." You know what? That struck a chord with...yours truly. (I have five kids.)

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:18:45 pm ET)

"Taut. Angry." James, when you're good, you're good.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:19:28 pm ET)

I'd score that just about nine out of ten. Ten on energy. Ten on conviction. But nine on argument, because, as you rightly pointed out, he didn't quite distinguish between the consensus and Kerry on cutting defense.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:20:35 pm ET)

Heh, I'd give it a 9 on energy, 9 on conviction, 9 on being fundamentally misleading and borderline slanderous.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:20:47 pm ET)

Similar scores, slightly tweaked categories.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:21:05 pm ET)

James, I'll go right ahead and say it first: There's something a little off-putting about Lynne Cheney. Not quite cold, but, well, there is a chill breeze.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:21:37 pm ET)

Yes, she's not quiet the mom next door that Mrs. Bush or Mrs. Edwards is. And it's sad to hear Dick Cheney didn't do the Twist.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:21:45 pm ET)

Although not ultimately surprising, I guess.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:22:03 pm ET)

Still, it's a good mental image.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:22:37 pm ET)

Exactly. You could imagine yourself having a cup of coffee with Mrs. Bush or Mrs. Edwards. But coffee with Mrs. Cheney? First you'd want to clean your fingernails and scrub behind your ears.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:23:11 pm ET)

Take a couple of deep breaths, James.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:23:25 pm ET)

Hail to the Chief.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:23:46 pm ET)

TYGA, although I am chuckling, I admit.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:24:14 pm ET)

He really isn't interested in basking, is he? Settle down, folks, and let's get down to business.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:25:01 pm ET)

Cheney's less of a basker than a lurker. Actual quote:"Am I the evil genius in the corner that nobody ever sees come out of his hole? It's a nice way to operate, actually."

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:25:02 pm ET)

What's the word? Not serious. Not unhappy. Dour, maybe?

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:25:53 pm ET)

He's wound tight, but that's his key to gravitas. I used to think that was great, personally – a sign that he was a competent realist. It's an appealing image.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:26:02 pm ET)

Close your eyes for a moment, and listen, not to the words, but to the timbre of his voice. I'd never thought of this before, but he has good, rich pipes.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:26:41 pm ET)

Is that TRULY a Cheney quotation? Beautiful. Proof that he has a sense of humor. Come to think of it, he's showing some nice humorous abilities right now.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:26:49 pm ET)

I think that joke was so clearly in the offing that it could have been considerably better.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:26:57 pm ET)

But it was no Bush twin bellyflop.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:27:39 pm ET)

The Twins? They were so bad, it's underhanded of you even to bring them up, James.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:28:10 pm ET)

Yeah, even The New York Post went after them this morning. Not an auspicious debut.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:28:11 pm ET)

The stuff about the grandpappy isn't bad. Shows some sentiment, no?

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:28:42 pm ET)

I don't know why he's wasting the minutes, though; the GOP thinks he's human already, and the independents and Democrats can't possibly be swayed.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:29:10 pm ET)

This is the guy who voted against a resolution urging that Nelson Mandela be let out of prison.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:29:15 pm ET)

This sounds like Cheney. Summing up the accomplishments, as if he were making a presentation to a board.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:29:30 pm ET)

You don't get any more mustache-twirlingly unsavory than that.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:30:11 pm ET)

Heh, the results are indeed fairly clear to see. Ohio's economy is tanking and dragging Bush's prospects with it.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:30:44 pm ET)

WHAT? Ohio's turning around – and has been for several months now.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:30:58 pm ET)

Lawyer bashing – a smart plank. If you set it up as lawyers vs. doctors and patients, it's a good argument.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:31:21 pm ET)

The hidden factor is that it's really lawyers, doctors, and patients against insurance companies – HUGE GOP supporters.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:31:41 pm ET)

You're right that Ohio is looking better for Bush – but he's spent incredible time and resources there, and it's only looking better in the last few weeks.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:31:47 pm ET)

So far, this is only half as animated, and half as good, as Cheney's speech in Philly four years ago.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:32:02 pm ET)

Yes, he's very very low energy.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:32:13 pm ET)

But he's not really attacking yet.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:32:34 pm ET)

Yes, I'm still waiting for that attack....

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:32:43 pm ET)

Or maybe... there is no attack? This is all just an attempt to bring Cheney's positives up by having him pull a Teddy Ruxpin?

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:33:13 pm ET)

No attack? Say it ain't so!

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:33:49 pm ET)

I won't believe it until he trundles off stage.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:34:07 pm ET)

Here's the gravitas – it's when he talks about the war.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:34:29 pm ET)

But it's boilerplate. Very, very, boilerplate stuff thus far.

Josh Burek (Wed. 9/1, 10:34:35 pm ET)

Having read his prepared remarks, I assure you the attack is...imminent, or at least gathering.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:34:46 pm ET)

Agreed. Utterly unimaginative.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:35:06 pm ET)

Good to know, Josh. I'll keep my shield at the ready.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:35:19 pm ET)

Thanks, Josh. And again, James, take a few deep breaths right now.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:36:02 pm ET)

The hidden shadow of that statement: We've also created the world's most expensive recruiting poster for Al Qaeda by invading Iraq and plunging it into chaos.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:36:29 pm ET)

Doggone, but his seriousness is finally starting to work. He's managing to convey the sense of a man who has actually sat at the table in the Sit Room and had to share in the business of war.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:37:28 pm ET)

This still feels pretty soporific to me, Peter. He's now hitting the Libya note again – we've heard that before a number of times. And the Libya threat being wrapped up can't be that powerful to most people – it was never pumped up as much of a threat before.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:38:15 pm ET)

Really to get into this, we'd have to have yet another of our long and tangential conversations. Is Iraq unsettled? Yes. In chaos? Not even close. Schools and hospitals are open. There's more electricity than there was before the war, and...but back to Cheney.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:38:26 pm ET)

Ironically: We have George Soros to thank for keeping most of the old Soviet nuclear scientists productively occupied. We've been lousy about dealing with Soviet nukes – the world's REAL worst source of nuclear components and actual weapons.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:38:59 pm ET)

Yes, I have to grant you that the energy level is low. He seems to spit out two sentences, wait for applause, spit out another couple, and so on.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:39:14 pm ET)

There have been more than 15,000 individual attacks over there, Peter – the head of the general council was killed. The UN was blown out. We're approaching 1000 US troops killed in action.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:39:25 pm ET)

If that's not chaos... it's a pretty good likeness.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:39:52 pm ET)

No, no – and you really should know better, because it reflects well on a Democrat: Clinton's secretary of defense, Bill Perry, set in place a program for dismantling Soviet warheads that (as I understand it) went down just beautifully.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:40:32 pm ET)

Is this the attack at last? "Moments come along in history...fundamental decisions." It's almost as though he's finally getting around to what he really wanted to say all along.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:41:08 pm ET)

Here, he's saying something I agree with – the containment policies of Soviet communism worked, and they're something to be proud of. But to suggest that Bush has set up a modern equivalent is a shoddy analogy.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:41:49 pm ET)

Here it comes.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:42:08 pm ET)

I'd have drawn a tighter, more detailed analogy with Truman (a very great president, by the way), who had to set up the architecture of the cold war in about 18 months, just as Bush had to figure out how to deal with terrorism all of a sudden.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:42:25 pm ET)

Yup. Here it is. "Sharpest/highest." Good stuff.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:42:30 pm ET)

The Senate attack, as you suggested. There are a lot of votes to mine there – unfortunately, a lot of anecdotal pieces of evidence to throw together into misleading pictures.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:43:28 pm ET)

There's a fundamental mismatch here. Cheney wants to be serious, also to get a rhythm going. The crowd wants to have fun. Their booing ain't helping him.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:43:42 pm ET)

Bush and Cheney have both talked about how the war on terror needs to be conducted with sensitivity.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:44:17 pm ET)

And they're all right – Kerry, too – if we blunder around invading the wrong countries and killing people willy nilly, we expend precious diplomatic capital. To say nothing of the moral consequences.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:44:35 pm ET)

Bang--and valid. Kerry did make a big deal out of contrasting his post-attack position with Bush's pre-empt position. That strikes me as square, in both senses: Fair, and a direct hit.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:44:36 pm ET)

I think you're right – it's that rowdy GOP crowd.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:44:45 pm ET)

This just isn't the right time to chant "USA, USA, USA."

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:46:03 pm ET)

What Kerry has actually condemned was the sloppy way the war in Iraq was conducted, something that a lot of Americans – and many British politicians – would agree with heartily.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:46:31 pm ET)

"A difference between leading a coalition of many nations and submitting to the objections of a few." A nice, powerful description of a fundamental difference between the candidates. Square, once again, in both senses.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:46:44 pm ET)

It's this amazing GOP talent for painting things as on/off, black/white, right/wrong – either you support all military efforts to the hilt, or you're a namby pamby French-backing pacifist.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:47:17 pm ET)

Oh, come, man: Simplification in a convention speech, and you're shocked?

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:47:26 pm ET)

No! Patently false. He voted for a $87 billion resolution that would have paid for the troops' needs by cutting back the tax cut for the very wealthiest.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:47:46 pm ET)

This is the most durable Republican libel in the book.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:47:54 pm ET)

The ultimate simplification, of course, is the ballot: All we'll get to do on Nov. 2 is vote for one man or the other. No nuance. Just a crude, and absolute, choice.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:49:03 pm ET)

It's true, it's true. But you're a lot more likely to choose the stark choice of Kerry if you haven't been badgered through a maze of false two-choice options by misleading rhetoric like this.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:50:00 pm ET)

Aw, gee: Your side has already spent $60 million of 527 money, and there are tens of millions in spending still to come. John Kerry will be able to defend himself, James.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:50:29 pm ET)

"Senator Kerry's liveliest disagreement is with himself." Oh, beauty!

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:51:04 pm ET)

Just saying he'll be able to defend himself doesn't excuse mud-slinging. It's like those commentators who said the Swift Boat vet lies were legitimate political action because Kerry talked about his war record.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:51:49 pm ET)

What we need is a media that relentlessly goes after untruths on either side, and shreds them – including when groups like MoveOn paint one rogue racist congressional candidate as being typical of the whole GOP.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:52:11 pm ET)

None of this flip-flop stuff would stick, James, if Kerry hadn't engaged in a the Original Flip-Flop, opposing Vietnam, then taking huge credit for fighting in the war. Not trying to start a SwiftVet discussion here. Just asserting what I truly believe: That Kerry himself opened this flip-flop line of attack.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:52:38 pm ET)

Ah, more media like The Christian Science Monitor? I vote for it.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:53:08 pm ET)

Before going back to Cheney: saying that Kerry flip-flopped on Vietnam is utterly false. He fought because his friend died overseas, and he believed in serving his country. What he learned in Vietnam informed his future stance against the war.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:53:17 pm ET)

That's called courage. That's called experience.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:53:55 pm ET)

Here, Cheney has a point – there's a real appeal to calling evil by its name, especially in an era when there are groups like Al Qaeda that so clearly fit the bill.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:54:06 pm ET)

The problem is: You can't just go around calling everything you don't like "evil."

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:54:13 pm ET)

No, sir, I don't buy it: If the war was as evil as he claimed, he ought never to have gone. And if it wasn't evil, he ought not to have protested it. He – and, if you'll forgive me, you – simply cannot have it both ways.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:55:27 pm ET)

This stuff is only okay, at best. Cheney was only really compelling when a) he talked directly about the war, and, b) when he went on the attack.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:55:31 pm ET)

He decried the war as evil because of what he witnessed – mandatory body counts and free fire zones, and a conflict that was grinding on to no purpose, at great human cost.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:55:57 pm ET)

That was informed by first-hand experience, gained in Vietnam – the hard way.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:56:14 pm ET)

Yes, I agree – Cheney's not the guy to be delivering poetic visions of hope.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:56:26 pm ET)

Ah, but then why does he take credit for participating in it? He should instead portray his service as a sad, sad chapter in his life.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:56:40 pm ET)

Right. Poetry just ain't in this guy.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:57:01 pm ET)

He's proud of having fought alongside his friends in the Swift boat, and having served his country, rather than dodging his duty. Is that so strange?

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:57:14 pm ET)

And there he goes. Not a barnstormer of a speech.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:57:20 pm ET)

Perhaps deliberately low-profile?

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:57:37 pm ET)

Well, I guess I'd just repeat my earlier assertion: Cheney was compelling for ten minutes or so in the middle of his speech, but otherwise? Pedestrian.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:58:01 pm ET)

Agreed. They let Miller do the heavy lifting tonight.

James Norton (Wed. 9/1, 10:58:17 pm ET)

A pleasure as always. Tomorrow's the finale – see you then.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:58:44 pm ET)

Deliberately low-profile. Maybe. But on what theory? Trying to make Bush look good? Or do they have polling data that shows Cheney has such high unfavorables that he has to underplay every speech? I dunno. I was a speechwriter. I resist the suggestion that there's ever an occasion for giving a mediocre address.

Peter Robinson (Wed. 9/1, 10:59:17 pm ET)

Yes, indeed. Can't wait for the finale. Hasta mañana.

Josh Burek (Wed. 9/1, 10:59:24 pm ET)

James and Peter, thank you for another energetic – and civil – discussion. We'll look forward to the final round of "Diablog: real-time repartee" tomorrow night, when we tune in to watch President Bush's acceptance speech.