Diablog: Real-time repartee

During each convention night's keynote address, watch political analysts and keyboard comedians Peter Robinson and James Norton exchange wit and wisdom in a real-time format.

Join us each convention night at 10pm (ET).

 • Wednesday night (July 28): John Edwards
 • Thursday night (July 29): John Kerry

Transcript of Monday night's Diablog, featuring commentary on Hillary and Bill Clinton

Transcript of Tuesday night's Diablog, featuring commentary on Teresa Heinz Kerry:

Josh Burek (Tue. 7/27, 9:58:22 pm ET)

Good evening, and welcome to Diablog: real-time repartee. We're delighted to welcome back, from the right, Peter Robinson, and from the left, James Norton. Gentlemen, the virtual podium is yours.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 9:58:39 pm ET)

I'm not sure if I'm ready to start. Obama has made me a little light-headed.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 9:58:55 pm ET)

But it's a pleasure to be back in your virtual presence, Peter.

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 9:59:22 pm ET)

My, my. I thought Obama himself sounded a little light-headed. Jobs for the jobless? Homes for the homeless? Is he aware that the economy is growing smartly?

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 9:59:34 pm ET)

At your virtual service, Jim, as always.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 9:59:48 pm ET)

Growing smartly for corporations, sure. But workers are hurting.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:00:04 pm ET)

To quote The New York Times: "From the trough of the last recession in November 2001 through last month, private sector payrolls have risen a paltry 0.2 percent. This stands in contrast to the nearly 7.5 percent increase recorded, on average, over the comparable 31-month interval of the six preceding recoveries."

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:00:20 pm ET)

Was that cheating? If so, my apologies...

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:00:45 pm ET)

Oh, pish. Even in the industrial states of the Midwest, factory orders are up, employment is up.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:00:47 pm ET)

I'll try to leave the unpleasant facts about the non-recovery out and deal in generalities.

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:00:56 pm ET)

Did you have that quotation hot-keyed?

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:01:03 pm ET)

But what kind of jobs?

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:01:20 pm ET)

The jobs that are coming back are low pay, and low status, with increasingly shrinking benefits.

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:01:31 pm ET)

Quite a lot of manufacturing jobs, actually.

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:01:50 pm ET)

Do you know anything about this congressman from Rhode Island?

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:02:11 pm ET)

I don't...

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:02:18 pm ET)

What's the scoop?

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:02:31 pm ET)

Hmm. Quoting from the Gipper's first inaugural address. A fine way to appeal to this Reagan speechwriter....

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:02:49 pm ET)

And parallel to that: Will you grant that Obama is one of the best speakers you've seen in this election cycle?

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:03:35 pm ET)

Ah, I see. He's there to introduce Ron [Reagan Jr.]. Regarding whom, a brief personal declaration: I like him. I can't say I know Ron well, but I do know him somewhat, and he has all his father's charm. Alas, he also has the politics of...Howard Dean.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:04:00 pm ET)

It's tragic when people with rock-solid progressive politics make it to the national stage, I agree.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:04:18 pm ET)

They tend to cause a lot of turmoil, as they rush to and fro, improving things for people.

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:04:19 pm ET)

I've only heard Obama speech tonight, and I caught only about the last five minutes. He looks impressive, and speaks with real energy. But all he seemed to offer – during, again, the mere moment I caught him – was a string of platitudes. A "C," maybe a "C-plus."

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:04:39 pm ET)

I think the key to Obama was his introduction – his personal story.

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:05:00 pm ET)

Oh. Well, I missed Obama's personal story.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:05:02 pm ET)

As much as anything can be The American Dream, he had it. He even linked it back to his family's African Dream of a better life for their children.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:05:39 pm ET)

Ah, Ron Reagan. Let's give him a second to get started....

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:06:00 pm ET)

No, Ron, nobody who has paid the most glancing attention to your own politics over the last 20 years wouldn't be remotely surprised to see you speaking at a Democratic convention.

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:06:30 pm ET)

Pacing slow, delivery a little uneven.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:06:55 pm ET)

Conventions are still aimed at the non-wonks. What's your take on the Bush Administration's stance on stem cells? Politically savvy? Ethically defensible? Both?

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:07:07 pm ET)

Did I just use a double negative? If I do that again, I'm going to have to hand in my speechwriters' license.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:07:44 pm ET)

What's explosive about this issue is that it opens the door to criticizing the administration's overall record on science, which has been bad, to say the very least.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:08:14 pm ET)

If we start proofreading our own comments tonight, Peter, we might start making sense....

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:08:23 pm ET)

Politically savvy, ethically acceptable, just. I'm with Nat Hentoff (a great liberal, as you know): If it's human, and it's alive, then it's human life. The number of cells – the tininess of the being – is irrelevant.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:08:24 pm ET)

Let's not let that get in the way of a lively interchange.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:08:44 pm ET)

So...is hair human?

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:09:01 pm ET)

I just had a haircut. I'm feeling a sudden surge of guilt....

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:09:48 pm ET)

Or to stick with the "alive" idea – what if you scratch yourself after a poison-ivy attack? And live skin cells are shed?

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:10:01 pm ET)

That is a terrible instance of dishonesty. I don't know a soul – not one – who objects to stem cell research merely to grind a political axe. It is, alas, Ron who should be ashamed of himself.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:10:37 pm ET)

There are a lot – and I would hazard to say a majority – of medical ethicists who would say that the possible benefits of using stem cells for research greatly outweigh the possible ethical downside.

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:10:44 pm ET)

Sorry. My Nat Hentoff line was incomplete: If an embryo is human and alive, then it is, of course, human life.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:10:56 pm ET)

I think you're right that Ron is making a political point. But is that a bad thing, in a democracy?

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:11:42 pm ET)

That, actually, is little short of monstrous: We are now going to decide which instances of human life are worthy of being termed "human beings."

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:12:14 pm ET)

What worries me is when politics gets in the way of good science. 48 Nobel Laureates say that the Bush Administration has let this exact thing happen.

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:12:25 pm ET)

Oh, yes: I'll give you that much. The right venue for the fight over stem cell research is politics. Not, in other words, the courts.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:12:55 pm ET)

I'm not going to get drawn into the quagmire of pro-life versus pro-choice - but I concede that you have a legitimate philosophical perspective on this.

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:13:18 pm ET)

During a lull, could you give me the citation to that statement by Nobel laureates? I'd like to see what they have to say.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:13:37 pm ET)

Absolutely.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:14:34 pm ET)

To quote the LA Times: "This month, more than 4,000 scientists – including 48 Nobel laureates and 127 members of the National Academy of Sciences – issued a letter accusing the administration of distorting and suppressing science to suit its political goals."

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:14:43 pm ET)

There it is again: The unifying emotion at this convention: Anger. I just don't get it, Jim. Disagree with W. But rage against him? Really, Democrats seem far more angry with W. that we Republicans ever were with Clinton.

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:15:26 pm ET)

Right, I remember that story. But as I recall it didn't deal specifically with stem-cell research. Did it?

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:15:46 pm ET)

Kids for Kerry? What in the Sam Hill is that?

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:15:55 pm ET)

Well, Clinton didn't mislead us into a war that cost 900 lives. Or stalk and destroy environmental regulation. Or appoint industry lobbyists to many of the important regulatory posts within the government.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:16:04 pm ET)

Yeah, I'm with you on that.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:16:15 pm ET)

She resembles Little Orphan Annie.

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:16:45 pm ET)

The death count in Iraq, incidentally, has now surpassed 1000.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:16:51 pm ET)

They say the 13-17 vote could be the key to a Kerry victory this year.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:17:13 pm ET)

Iraq was 904 and Afghanistan was 125+, last I checked...

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:17:38 pm ET)

A perfectly adorable little kid. But doesn't this trivialize the evening? I dunno. It seems merely cute, absent even a hint of serious purpose. Whaddya you make of it?

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:17:52 pm ET)

Oh, Cheney just got busted!

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:18:28 pm ET)

"But Mom, the Vice President said it!" "Well, that doesn't make it OK, Cameron. He's a very bad man." "But he's also President of the US Senate, casting votes to break ties when the legislative process reaches a logistical impasse!" "Well – OK, I guess you can take the soap out of your mouth."

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:18:34 pm ET)

A legit shot at Cheney. But to have it made by a 12-year old?

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:18:40 pm ET)

I think you're right – it's a megashot of cute.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:18:59 pm ET)

Too cute, actually. It's sort of bordering on Pokemon-cute. In this observer's opinion.

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:19:43 pm ET)

... (I'm the father of five kids, Jim. What ticked me off most about Clinton was that he put me in the position of having to tell them why he was being impeached.)

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:20:14 pm ET)

Well, there's a reason we know so much about Clinton's private habits....

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:20:24 pm ET)

You've got the GOP and Ken Starr to thank for that.

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:20:28 pm ET)

Yes, indeed. He lied about it under oath.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:21:03 pm ET)

Uh-oh... I sense the "which lie means more" argument a brewin'...

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:21:27 pm ET)

Somebody must have given lots and lots of thought to just exactly what the DNC wanted on television during prime time. A kids' choir? I don't get it.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:21:53 pm ET)

Isn't the State of the Union pretty close to being under oath? And wouldn't you say the conflation of Al Qaeda and Iraq – and the unqualified statements about Iraq's (non-existent) nukes, and (defunct) WMD programs – are pretty close to lying?

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:22:42 pm ET)

The Bush is lying meme? The 9/11 commission just issued a unanimous and bipartisan report making it perfectly clear that Bush wasn't lying.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:22:45 pm ET)

Maybe I'm being too hard on Bush – he did spend a lot of time on vacation... and if you believe his former Treasury secretary, he wasn't exactly the most hands-on president.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:23:06 pm ET)

Did you read the same 9/11 report that I skimmed and read summaries of?

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:23:33 pm ET)

You'll now get a little lull from me. I'm interested in this bio of Teresa.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:23:40 pm ET)

Because they were very conscious of not passing judgement on this administration's handling of intelligence. And Senators like Rockefeller said that though it was unanimous, there were conclusions that some Senators disagreed with.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:23:51 pm ET)

OK, let's take a breather.

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:24:29 pm ET)

I'm talking about the Kean/Hamilton commission.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:28:18 pm ET)

The Boston Globe's book has some great stuff on Teresa Heinz Kerry – I really recommend it. Workmanlike but informative.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:28:55 pm ET)

And about as evenhanded as one could ask for. I say that as a journalist, not a Kerry-backer. If I may be permitted to switch hats midstream.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:29:32 pm ET)

Peter, what do you think about getting candidates' kids into the spotlight...? Is it effective? Is it a waste of time?

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:31:45 pm ET)

Sorry, Jim, I had a momentary technical glitch.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:31:58 pm ET)

Ah, the dramatic pause. A speechwriter's most potent tool.

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:32:35 pm ET)

The appearance by Chris Heinz strikes me as shrewd. Since this is a second marriage, everyone will be wondering at some level if the kids from the first marriage are comfortable with it. Young Heinz is making it clear that they are.

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:33:36 pm ET)

The one question that hasn't been touched upon – and that strikes me as perfectly legitimate: How did Teresa make the political switch? She was married to a centrist Republican, and now she's married to a left-of-center Democrat. I'd like to hear a journalist ask her how she thought that through. You?

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:33:52 pm ET)

I wonder if most people out there were really aware of his Kerry's family situation, though. I think he's just starting to become known – as a person – on a national level.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:34:59 pm ET)

I can't – as much as I'd like to – put myself into the undoubtedly interesting place of Teresa Heinz Kerry's brain. But I think anyone who has followed Kerry's career over time would recognize that just describing it as "left of center" is a dramatic oversimplification.

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:34:59 pm ET)

Is the crowd with her? Or is this cheering pro forma? (You'd have a sense of that, I'm figuring.)

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:35:28 pm ET)

Pro forma. I just don't think people know her at this point.

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:35:50 pm ET)

That makes this speech crucial, doesn't it?

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:35:52 pm ET)

Though I'm not in the room. It's possible partisans found the "shut it" remark to be sparky and endearing.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:36:12 pm ET)

I think it is pretty critical, yes.

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:36:22 pm ET)

Nice. Humorous but forceful.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:36:30 pm ET)

It really develops Kerry's personal story, and gets us acquainted with someone we'll spend four years with.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:37:36 pm ET)

Her African identity is just one of the many interesting facets that come out about her in the book.

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:37:52 pm ET)

This is tricky material. She does run a risk, I think, of seeming...I don't know. Haughty, maybe? The money, the Swiss education. She needs to establish some sort of bond with ordinary Americans, right quick-like.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:38:02 pm ET)

She once said that John Kerry reminded her of "a pet wolf who comes in and you say, 'Yeah, cute.'"

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:38:14 pm ET)

Perhaps after the DNC, we, as Americans, can all look at John Kerry, and say: "Yeah, cute." And then vote straight-ticket Democratic in November.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:38:35 pm ET)

I think you're right.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:38:50 pm ET)

Being able to speak five languages is not necessarily an asset.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:38:57 pm ET)

In a political campaign, at least.

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:39:11 pm ET)

She's clearly intelligent, complicated. A really fascinating person. But is she likeable? That's her job tonight. To make folks – just plain folks – feel they could get along with her.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:40:05 pm ET)

I think you may be oversimplifying it. After four years of Laura Bush – who seems like a really great person, incidentally – it may be time for a new brand of presidential spouse.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:40:27 pm ET)

Someone a bit more cosmopolitan, and engaging, and intellectual.

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:40:39 pm ET)

Maybe. But this is starting to sound like a combination history lecture/sermon.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:40:48 pm ET)

Here, I think I speak for not only myself, but many of the cosmopolitan elite I used to brunch with in Cambridge, Mass.

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:41:19 pm ET)

Couldn't agree with you more, there. She'd make an ideal First Lady...of Cambridge, Mass. and Marin, California.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:41:32 pm ET)

We have a rough political lens in this country – First Ladies are supposed to be soft and motherly. That's the Gold Standard.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:42:21 pm ET)

The thing is, she's really an impressive person. The fighting she's done on behalf of the environment should be greatly encouraging to anyone worried about the way our forests and air have been sold to the highest bidder over the past few years.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:43:34 pm ET)

I think that's a strong statement.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:44:24 pm ET)

She's defining herself – as I read it – as tough, smart, feminist, worldly – not the classic model of a First Lady, but something coherent, and true to her identity.

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:44:24 pm ET)

Hmm. She seems a more elegant version of the early Hillary. Not sure quite how that'll go down. The early Hillary proved even more divisive than the current Hillary.

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:45:18 pm ET)

The Peace Corps. Is she marking that out as the object of her special attentions if her husband is elected, do you suppose? Every First Lady has a project or two.

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:45:43 pm ET)

Tear down any wall? A line close to my heart.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:45:49 pm ET)

Well, in a year as polarized as this one, I'm not sure that the votes a strong Teresa Heinz Kerry would lose would be more than the votes she would gain by turning out more impassioned women and environmental voters.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:46:25 pm ET)

"Tear down this wall" is one of my favorite moments in political rhetoric/statesmanship of all time.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:46:48 pm ET)

There's a really good Weekly Standard article from 1997 that tells the story of Peter's speech – I urge our readers to Google it.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:47:19 pm ET)

And while you're Googling, check out Diebold + voting + flawed.

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:47:21 pm ET)

Yes, I agree with that: A strong Teresa would –will – represent an interesting political calculus. She'd appeal to the base and fascinate even those who felt uncomfortable with her. What I can't get a reading on is the effect she'd have on the small but critical pool of undecided voters.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:47:26 pm ET)

And Medicare + Nick Smith + bribery.

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:48:00 pm ET)

I tremble to think what Google-whacking you're leading our readers into, Jim.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:48:16 pm ET)

I'm not sure that undecideds would make her their swing factor – there are so many bigger questions bouncing around out there.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:48:29 pm ET)

Oh, it's benign. You know... just information. about stuff.

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:48:45 pm ET)

Women's rights, the Peace Corps, environmentalism. All left of center and no center. At least so far.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:48:51 pm ET)

Also good is PATRIOT Act + library + Big Brother.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:49:14 pm ET)

It's sort of a sad statement that the GOP has ceded women's rights, isn't it?

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:49:45 pm ET)

Parents able to afford family life? She must be talking about the growth that W's tax cuts have prompted.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:50:37 pm ET)

Ah, you're referring to the multi-multimillionaires who have gone from "incredibly prosperous" to "mind-blowingly filthy rich." I think you're right.

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:50:58 pm ET)

Now as a political junkie rather than a partisan, Jim, what about her manner? Does it seem a little preachy? A little haughty? There's just a little something there that makes me feel uneasy. You?

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:50:59 pm ET)

Bush has been amazing for that top tenth of a percent.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:51:35 pm ET)

A great book to read on this is David Cay Johnston's "Perfectly Legal." He's a tough, bulldog of a reporter – we've had him on The Al Franken show a couple of times.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:51:56 pm ET)

I think there is a regal bearing there.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:52:08 pm ET)

And I don't think that's the most cuddly or marketable affect to sport.

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:52:22 pm ET)

"My president will not fear disagreement or dissent?" What on earth does that even mean? That he'd stand up to the French? But he's already told us he'd do anything necessary to make the Europeans like him.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:52:41 pm ET)

But, again – does it ring true? Yes. I think that's better than a stutterstep toward being just another average middle-American housewife.

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:52:54 pm ET)

"Regal?" My, but you're good. Regal to you, Jim, haughty to me.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:53:12 pm ET)

Hmm, I think the rhetoric is a little closer to "we will work with other nations whenever we can, going it alone only when we have to."

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:53:28 pm ET)

Heh, only a conservative would say "regal" sounds good!

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:53:50 pm ET)

"A moral nation?" Gee, that strikes me as exactly the sort of self-righteousness of which your side is always accusing W.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:54:43 pm ET)

That's sort of a cheap shot – every side in every election has talked about bringing morals to government, I think. It's boilerplate, as far as rhetoric goes.

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:55:36 pm ET)

I just figured out who she reminds me of: Barbra Streisand. Really. Elegant, forceful, well-spoken. But with a sense of hauteur.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:55:37 pm ET)

Of course, the Democrats mean it this time. All we have to do is kick Halliburton out of the White House's inner sanctum, and we've gone a long way toward a cleaner government.

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:55:45 pm ET)

Hmm...

James Norton (Tue. 7/27, 10:55:55 pm ET)

I think you're onto something.

Peter Robinson (Tue. 7/27, 10:56:53 pm ET)

This much seems clear: Teresa will be a story in herself, and among First Ladies and would-be First Ladies, that is very, very unusual.

Josh Burek (Tue. 7/27, 10:58:50 pm ET)

Peter and Jim, many thanks for your copious commentary. We'll look forward to another round tomorrow night, during John Edwards' keynote speech.